Greetings All!!
As most of you know I'm attempting to get 500 completed questionnaires...I'm not even at 100 yet so I need all the help I can get. I'm am posting on this post both the questionnaire and mission statement. You can copy and paste them to your own document and then email it to me @ adoptionevolution@yahoo.com. If you rather I can email you the document and it is in a form that you can just tab through and fill in what applys to you.
Thanks so much for all the help you have given me and please pass it on!!
Luv,
Shannon
Adoption Evolution
Mission Statement
Our intent with Adoption Evolution is to make what we know as open adoption, the normal and expected practice in newborn adoption in the United States. We want to educate adopted parents, natural parents, and adoptee’s on the importance of all parties having knowledge of and even knowing each other. Adoption Evolution wants to lift up the experience of adoption by examining and filtering through the terminology and myth’s surrounding it. We believe law’s need to change in regards to adoption. We support the government amending birth certificates for children of adoption. It is our belief that adoptees' should have a birth certificate that includes all parties’ involved names, natural parents and adopted parents.
There is endless evidence that the secrets of adoption are harmful to both child and parents. Adoption Evolution believes we know a way to open up the cloud of secrecy where all adoption triad members will live happy.
Mostly, Adoption Evolution believes that this is not a difficult or confusing process in fact it feels quite rewarding. The easy answer is to just LOVE. Natural parents need to love the adopted family, they are providing for their blood the way they cannot. Adopted parents need to love the natural family they created this beautiful child that the adopted parents cherish so much. Adoptees’ need to love both sets of parents together they have made the adopted child one.
Adoption Evolution believes that there is no room for selfish, greedy, jealous feelings in successful adoption. Mother’s placing a child need to feel as though they gained a family not “gave up” a child. Adoption is not the end instead it is a new beginning with a brand new life.
Love IS the answer
Adoption Evolution Questionnaire for Adoption triad members
In what manner are you a member of the adoption triad?
Was the adoption that you are a part of open or closed?
What do you think is the best thing about adoption?
What are the drawbacks of adoption in your opinion?
After reading the “Adoption Evolution” mission statement is there anything that you do or do not agree with? What are those things?
Adoptee
Do you know your natural family?
Yes
No
Do you have the desire to search and find your natural family? Why or why not?
If you have found or known your natural family is there similarities between you and them, if so what are they?
How does your adoptive family feel about you finding or searching for your natural family?
Do you think that adoption has effected your life in a positive or negative way and how?
Natural Parents
Was the decision to place your child in an adoption yours or was it something you felt pressured into? If you felt pressured who and why?
Do you feel like the choice of adoption worked for you? Why or why not?
Have you search for your child? Why or why not?
If you had the option to participate in open adoption as described in the “Adoption Evolution” mission statement would you? Why or why not?
Over all what is your opinion of adoption?
Adoptive Parents
Why did you choose to adopt?
How would you feel about your adopted child searching and finding their natural parents?
If you had the option to participate in open adoption as described in the “Adoption Evolution” mission statement would you? Why or why not?
Over all has adoption been what you expected? Why or why not?
All adoption triad members
If you could change anything about adoption what would it be?
Share any opinions you may have about what I’m doing here or just opinions about adoption in general.
Thanks again soooooo much!!
Friday, February 24, 2006
Inner Peace
Be on the lookout for symptoms of inner peace. The hearts of a great many have already been exposed to inner peace and it is possible that people everywhere could come down with it in epidemic proportions. This could pose a serious threat to what has, up to now, been a fairly stable condition of conflict in the world.
Some signs and symptoms of inner peace:
A tendency to think and act spontaneously rather than on fears based on past experiences.
An unmistakable ability to enjoy each moment.
A loss of interest in judging other people.
A loss of interest in judging self.
A loss of interest in interpreting the actions of others.
A loss of interest in conflict.
A loss of the ability to worry. (This is a very serious symptom.)
Frequent, overwhelming episodes of appreciation.
Contented feelings of connectedness with others and nature.
Frequent attacks of smiling.
An increasing tendency to let things happen rather than make them happen.
An increased susceptibility to the love extended by others as well as the uncontrollable urge to extend it.
WARNING:
If you have some or all of the above symptoms, please be advised that your condition of inner peace may be so far advanced as to not be curable. If you are exposed to anyone exhibiting any of these symptoms, remain exposed only at your own risk.
by Saskia Davis
Some signs and symptoms of inner peace:
A tendency to think and act spontaneously rather than on fears based on past experiences.
An unmistakable ability to enjoy each moment.
A loss of interest in judging other people.
A loss of interest in judging self.
A loss of interest in interpreting the actions of others.
A loss of interest in conflict.
A loss of the ability to worry. (This is a very serious symptom.)
Frequent, overwhelming episodes of appreciation.
Contented feelings of connectedness with others and nature.
Frequent attacks of smiling.
An increasing tendency to let things happen rather than make them happen.
An increased susceptibility to the love extended by others as well as the uncontrollable urge to extend it.
WARNING:
If you have some or all of the above symptoms, please be advised that your condition of inner peace may be so far advanced as to not be curable. If you are exposed to anyone exhibiting any of these symptoms, remain exposed only at your own risk.
by Saskia Davis
Tuesday, February 14, 2006
MN/TX Adoption Research Project
Here are some results from a study by MN/TX Adoption Research Project.
http://fsos.che.umn.edu/projects/mtarp.html
First here is a little about what this study was for:
Since the mid-1970's, adoption practices in the U.S. have changed dramatically, and the confidentiality maintained in the past is no longer the norm. The trend is toward "openness" in adoption, in which contact occurs between the adoptive family and birthparent(s), either directly or mediated (e.g., through an adoption agency). Some adoption professionals argue that fully open adoption should be standard practice, that the secrecy of confidential adoptions has been harmful to all parties involved. Others argue that openness is harmful and experimental. Their view is that confidential adoption worked well, so why change it? Although such professionals hold strong feelings about adoption, almost no research on this topic has been available to guide adoption policy and to answer basic questions about the dynamics of adoptive kinship networks
Here are a few of the things I found interesting:
At Wave 1, comparison of parents' and children's reports of openness revealed important gaps between parents' participation in open arrangements and their inclusion of the adopted child in the communication. Almost half the children in mediated adoptions were excluded from contact their adoptive parents were having with their birthmother, but most of these children were not aware of their being excluded. Most of the children in fully disclosed adoptions were included in meetings with birthparents and were aware of the arrangements (Grotevant & McRoy, 1998).
At Wave 1, adoptive mothers and birth mothers arranged most of the fully disclosed contact; adoptive fathers had little primary responsibility for arranging contact. As the adopted children got older, the birthmother and adoptive parents reported that the adolescents had assumed responsibility for arranging or requesting contact or would be taking responsibility for contact in the future (Dunbar, van Dulmen, et al. 2000).
As everyone reading my blog knows I support complete open adoptions. Wide open. That first results of the adopted parents not sharing with the child that they are in contact with the natural parents is disturbing to me. I think it is actions like that where the natural mother believes she has agreed to an open adoption but the adopted parents choose to handle it in their own way…not telling the child. There are no laws to back up open adoption so they can. 1 of many problems out there.
When all changes were taken into account (including openness level and changes in the type of contact, frequency of contact, or persons involved), 90% of the birthmothers experienced some change during the 8 year period. Reasons for change were many (Henney, Ayers-Lopez, McRoy, & Grotevant, 2004). Mediated adoptions, those featuring indirect contact through an intermediary at the adoption agency, posed special challenges in communication because they required the ongoing presence of a reliable staff person at the agency to keep the communication flowing in a timely manner.
When there were decreases in openness in adoptive kinship networks, the birthmothers and adoptive parents tended to have incongruent accounts regarding who initiated discontinuation of contact and divergent understandings about why contact stopped (Dunbar, van Dulmen, et al., 2000).
I think this part is really important because my whole “love is the answer” is about the management of the relationship. I know the judges ruling on these issues don’t nee to hear “love is the answer” but when teaching adoptive parents how to raise a healthy child I believe that simply figuring out how to love and respect one another will be the answer.
The management of contact in open adoptions involves a complex dance in which the roles and needs of the participants change over time, affecting the kinship network as a whole (Grotevant, McRoy, & van Dulmen, 1998). There is no uniform pattern for open adoptions. Adoptive kinship networks have contact by different means, among different people, at varying rates, and with varying degrees of interest. Successful relationships in such complex family situations hinge on participants’ flexibility, communication skills, and commitment to the relationships.
Members of adoptive kinship networks involved in ongoing contact found that their relationships were dynamic and had to be re-negotiated over time. Early in the adoption, meetings were especially important for the birthmothers, who were very concerned about whether they had made the right decision, whether her child was safe, and whether the adoptive parents were good people. After a while, birthmothers’ interest in contact sometimes waned, especially as they were assured that their child was thriving. With the passage of time, many birthmothers became involved in new romantic relationships, sometimes taking attention away from the adoptive relationships. According to the adoptive parents, the ability of birthmothers to provide information when requested was not always in tune with the timing of the request (Wrobel, Grotevant, Berge, Mendenhall, & McRoy, 2003). Adoptive parents tended to become more interested in contact as they became more secure in their role as parents. As the children grew older and understood the meaning of adoption (see Brodzinsky, Singer, & Braff, 1984), their questions tended to put pressure on the adoptive parents to seek more information or contact (Wrobel, Kohler, Grotevant, & McRoy, 1998, 1999).
At Wave 1, children’s satisfaction with contact did not differ by level of openness. However, by Wave 2, adolescents who had contact with birthmothers reported higher degrees of satisfaction with their level of adoption openness and with the intensity of their contact with birthmother than did adolescents who had no contact. In general, satisfaction with adoption openness was lower during middle adolescence (ages 14-16) than during early (ages 12-13) or late adolescence (ages 17-20) (Mendenhall et al, 2004).
I think this is Very interesting and I believe supports my beliefs.
Adolescents varied in their reasons for being satisfied or not satisfied with having contact or not having contact (Berge, Mendenhall, Wrobel, Grotevant, & McRoy, in press-2006). Adolescents having contact and expressing satisfaction with the contact (45.5% of the sample) stated that the contact provided an opportunity for a relationship to emerge that would provide additional support for them. They also expressed positive affect toward their birth mother, felt that the contact helped them better understand who they were, and made them interested in having contact with other members of their birth family, such as siblings. Adolescents having contact but not expressing satisfaction (16.3% of the sample) typically wanted more intensity in the relationship than they currently had, but they were not able to bring it about. They felt that they could have good relationships with both adoptive and birth parents, and that they did not have to choose one over the other. Adolescents not having contact and satisfied with the lack of contact (17.1%) felt that adoption was not an important part of their lives. They did not feel that it was necessary to have contact, sometimes expressing concern that contact might be a bad experience for them. They felt they were better off where they were (in their adoptive families) than they would have been if raised by their birth parents. Finally, adolescents not having contact but dissatisfied with the lack of contact (21.1%) sometimes desired contact but were unable to bring it about. Some had negative feelings toward their birth mother or assumed that she had not made an effort to have contact. Some worried that their adoptive parents or birth mother might feel bad about their pursuing contact.
There is so much more but I’ll leave it at this for today.
http://fsos.che.umn.edu/projects/mtarp.html
First here is a little about what this study was for:
Since the mid-1970's, adoption practices in the U.S. have changed dramatically, and the confidentiality maintained in the past is no longer the norm. The trend is toward "openness" in adoption, in which contact occurs between the adoptive family and birthparent(s), either directly or mediated (e.g., through an adoption agency). Some adoption professionals argue that fully open adoption should be standard practice, that the secrecy of confidential adoptions has been harmful to all parties involved. Others argue that openness is harmful and experimental. Their view is that confidential adoption worked well, so why change it? Although such professionals hold strong feelings about adoption, almost no research on this topic has been available to guide adoption policy and to answer basic questions about the dynamics of adoptive kinship networks
Here are a few of the things I found interesting:
At Wave 1, comparison of parents' and children's reports of openness revealed important gaps between parents' participation in open arrangements and their inclusion of the adopted child in the communication. Almost half the children in mediated adoptions were excluded from contact their adoptive parents were having with their birthmother, but most of these children were not aware of their being excluded. Most of the children in fully disclosed adoptions were included in meetings with birthparents and were aware of the arrangements (Grotevant & McRoy, 1998).
At Wave 1, adoptive mothers and birth mothers arranged most of the fully disclosed contact; adoptive fathers had little primary responsibility for arranging contact. As the adopted children got older, the birthmother and adoptive parents reported that the adolescents had assumed responsibility for arranging or requesting contact or would be taking responsibility for contact in the future (Dunbar, van Dulmen, et al. 2000).
As everyone reading my blog knows I support complete open adoptions. Wide open. That first results of the adopted parents not sharing with the child that they are in contact with the natural parents is disturbing to me. I think it is actions like that where the natural mother believes she has agreed to an open adoption but the adopted parents choose to handle it in their own way…not telling the child. There are no laws to back up open adoption so they can. 1 of many problems out there.
When all changes were taken into account (including openness level and changes in the type of contact, frequency of contact, or persons involved), 90% of the birthmothers experienced some change during the 8 year period. Reasons for change were many (Henney, Ayers-Lopez, McRoy, & Grotevant, 2004). Mediated adoptions, those featuring indirect contact through an intermediary at the adoption agency, posed special challenges in communication because they required the ongoing presence of a reliable staff person at the agency to keep the communication flowing in a timely manner.
When there were decreases in openness in adoptive kinship networks, the birthmothers and adoptive parents tended to have incongruent accounts regarding who initiated discontinuation of contact and divergent understandings about why contact stopped (Dunbar, van Dulmen, et al., 2000).
I think this part is really important because my whole “love is the answer” is about the management of the relationship. I know the judges ruling on these issues don’t nee to hear “love is the answer” but when teaching adoptive parents how to raise a healthy child I believe that simply figuring out how to love and respect one another will be the answer.
The management of contact in open adoptions involves a complex dance in which the roles and needs of the participants change over time, affecting the kinship network as a whole (Grotevant, McRoy, & van Dulmen, 1998). There is no uniform pattern for open adoptions. Adoptive kinship networks have contact by different means, among different people, at varying rates, and with varying degrees of interest. Successful relationships in such complex family situations hinge on participants’ flexibility, communication skills, and commitment to the relationships.
Members of adoptive kinship networks involved in ongoing contact found that their relationships were dynamic and had to be re-negotiated over time. Early in the adoption, meetings were especially important for the birthmothers, who were very concerned about whether they had made the right decision, whether her child was safe, and whether the adoptive parents were good people. After a while, birthmothers’ interest in contact sometimes waned, especially as they were assured that their child was thriving. With the passage of time, many birthmothers became involved in new romantic relationships, sometimes taking attention away from the adoptive relationships. According to the adoptive parents, the ability of birthmothers to provide information when requested was not always in tune with the timing of the request (Wrobel, Grotevant, Berge, Mendenhall, & McRoy, 2003). Adoptive parents tended to become more interested in contact as they became more secure in their role as parents. As the children grew older and understood the meaning of adoption (see Brodzinsky, Singer, & Braff, 1984), their questions tended to put pressure on the adoptive parents to seek more information or contact (Wrobel, Kohler, Grotevant, & McRoy, 1998, 1999).
At Wave 1, children’s satisfaction with contact did not differ by level of openness. However, by Wave 2, adolescents who had contact with birthmothers reported higher degrees of satisfaction with their level of adoption openness and with the intensity of their contact with birthmother than did adolescents who had no contact. In general, satisfaction with adoption openness was lower during middle adolescence (ages 14-16) than during early (ages 12-13) or late adolescence (ages 17-20) (Mendenhall et al, 2004).
I think this is Very interesting and I believe supports my beliefs.
Adolescents varied in their reasons for being satisfied or not satisfied with having contact or not having contact (Berge, Mendenhall, Wrobel, Grotevant, & McRoy, in press-2006). Adolescents having contact and expressing satisfaction with the contact (45.5% of the sample) stated that the contact provided an opportunity for a relationship to emerge that would provide additional support for them. They also expressed positive affect toward their birth mother, felt that the contact helped them better understand who they were, and made them interested in having contact with other members of their birth family, such as siblings. Adolescents having contact but not expressing satisfaction (16.3% of the sample) typically wanted more intensity in the relationship than they currently had, but they were not able to bring it about. They felt that they could have good relationships with both adoptive and birth parents, and that they did not have to choose one over the other. Adolescents not having contact and satisfied with the lack of contact (17.1%) felt that adoption was not an important part of their lives. They did not feel that it was necessary to have contact, sometimes expressing concern that contact might be a bad experience for them. They felt they were better off where they were (in their adoptive families) than they would have been if raised by their birth parents. Finally, adolescents not having contact but dissatisfied with the lack of contact (21.1%) sometimes desired contact but were unable to bring it about. Some had negative feelings toward their birth mother or assumed that she had not made an effort to have contact. Some worried that their adoptive parents or birth mother might feel bad about their pursuing contact.
There is so much more but I’ll leave it at this for today.
Ok...I'm back on!!
It really is hard, when you respect others and desire for them to respect or at least accept your presents and energy but instead you get pushed down and disrespected. I do have to realize though that not everyone is going to see things my way. I think I always have known that but when you agree with someone else 100% but that same person doesn't see anything good in what your doing or if they do...they have real #@$*%#Y way of showing it.
I'm good now though. I can't make natural mothers that hate adoption understand my mission. Speaking of, so this women that I wrote because someone had forwarded me a beautiful post that she had writed. I wrote her and was like Wow you have a beautiful way of looking at things la la la. She wrote me back and I sent her the questionnaire and mission statement like I do to everyone. Besides around 200 things she had to say that I look at in a wrong way and need to educate myself about she was mad that I called my mission statement a mission statement because I didn't sit down with a respected group of people in an office and go back and forth and back and forth before I came up with it. As if a person cannot have a mission statement in what their goals are????? Everyone starts at the bottem sometime right?
This is the thing, I want to educate people about how to experience what I have learned with in the open adoption of my daughter. I can't change the world. I can't fix every problem. I have some wonderful things to share with the world but for those people who want to be mad at me because my goals and plans won't fix the ENTIRE problem,....sorry! The fact is every bit of progress in the right direction helps. If the only kind of help that people want is the kind that will fix every problem...you may never get anything fixed.
Either way, I'm over letting it get me down...again. Thanks for all the upbeat emails I got from my friends...you guys are great!!
I'm good now though. I can't make natural mothers that hate adoption understand my mission. Speaking of, so this women that I wrote because someone had forwarded me a beautiful post that she had writed. I wrote her and was like Wow you have a beautiful way of looking at things la la la. She wrote me back and I sent her the questionnaire and mission statement like I do to everyone. Besides around 200 things she had to say that I look at in a wrong way and need to educate myself about she was mad that I called my mission statement a mission statement because I didn't sit down with a respected group of people in an office and go back and forth and back and forth before I came up with it. As if a person cannot have a mission statement in what their goals are????? Everyone starts at the bottem sometime right?
This is the thing, I want to educate people about how to experience what I have learned with in the open adoption of my daughter. I can't change the world. I can't fix every problem. I have some wonderful things to share with the world but for those people who want to be mad at me because my goals and plans won't fix the ENTIRE problem,....sorry! The fact is every bit of progress in the right direction helps. If the only kind of help that people want is the kind that will fix every problem...you may never get anything fixed.
Either way, I'm over letting it get me down...again. Thanks for all the upbeat emails I got from my friends...you guys are great!!
Wednesday, February 08, 2006
I need to figure something else out
After receiving many many questionnaires back I'm thinking I need to take a minute and regroup. I so bad want to try and make change. I want to connect with others that want to make change but for some reason I obviously am going at this all wrong.
For those of you who support me, thank you. For those who don't believe in me and make me an enemy of the cause, well it's because of them I need to figure out another way. Every single person that has wrote me in an angry way I AGREE with everything they say but they do not see that. This must be something I am doing.
I'm going to think about all of this for a while and regroup. My spirit was totally broken today. I'm sitting at my computer at work crying. All I want is to make things better for those who are going to be placed and I can see that I'm not going to get anywhere with this with all the people who do work in the industry not seeing what I'm trying to say.
Maybe it's that I'm not a great writer, I know this. I don't want to be a writer I just want to make change in what I feel passion for. I don't know.
Thank you all again, to those who do see what I'm trying to do.
For those of you who support me, thank you. For those who don't believe in me and make me an enemy of the cause, well it's because of them I need to figure out another way. Every single person that has wrote me in an angry way I AGREE with everything they say but they do not see that. This must be something I am doing.
I'm going to think about all of this for a while and regroup. My spirit was totally broken today. I'm sitting at my computer at work crying. All I want is to make things better for those who are going to be placed and I can see that I'm not going to get anywhere with this with all the people who do work in the industry not seeing what I'm trying to say.
Maybe it's that I'm not a great writer, I know this. I don't want to be a writer I just want to make change in what I feel passion for. I don't know.
Thank you all again, to those who do see what I'm trying to do.
Tuesday, February 07, 2006
Questionnaire
I have copy and pasted the questionnaire on here. This questionnaire is set up to tab through and fill in so it came out kinda weird when I copied it. If you have any questions drop me a line. If you want to fill this out just copy and paste it then fill it in and then send it to me @ adoptionevolution@yahoo.com.
thanks everyone for ALL the support. I'm trying not to offend people so, again, for those of you who feel offended by what I'm doing I can only follow my own heart and I"m not trying to offend anyone I PROMISE!!
Adoption Evolution Questionnaire for Adoption triad members
In what manner are you a member of the adoption triad?
Was the adoption that you are a part of open or closed?
What do you think is the best thing about adoption?
What are the drawbacks of adoption in your opinion?
After reading the “Adoption Evolution” mission statement is there anything that you do or do not agree with? What are those things?
Adoptee
Do you know your natural family?
Yes
No
Do you have the desire to search and find your natural family? Why or why not?
If you have found or known your natural family is there similarities between you and them, if so what are they?
How does your adoptive family feel about you finding or searching for your natural family?
Do you think that adoption has effected your life in a positive or negative way and how?
Natural Parents
Was the decision to place your child in an adoption yours or was it something you felt pressured into? If you felt pressured who and why?
Do you feel like the choice of adoption worked for you? Why or why not?
Have you search for your child? Why or why not?
If you had the option to participate in open adoption as described in the “Adoption Evolution” mission statement would you? Why or why not?
Over all what is your opinion of adoption?
Adoptive Parents
Why did you choose to adopt?
How would you feel about your adopted child searching and finding their natural parents?
If you had the option to participate in open adoption as described in the “Adoption Evolution” mission statement would you? Why or why not?
Over all has adoption been what you expected? Why or why not?
All adoption triad members
If you could change anything about adoption what would it be?
Share any opinions you may have about what I’m doing here or just opinions about adoption in general.
thanks everyone for ALL the support. I'm trying not to offend people so, again, for those of you who feel offended by what I'm doing I can only follow my own heart and I"m not trying to offend anyone I PROMISE!!
Adoption Evolution Questionnaire for Adoption triad members
In what manner are you a member of the adoption triad?
Was the adoption that you are a part of open or closed?
What do you think is the best thing about adoption?
What are the drawbacks of adoption in your opinion?
After reading the “Adoption Evolution” mission statement is there anything that you do or do not agree with? What are those things?
Adoptee
Do you know your natural family?
Yes
No
Do you have the desire to search and find your natural family? Why or why not?
If you have found or known your natural family is there similarities between you and them, if so what are they?
How does your adoptive family feel about you finding or searching for your natural family?
Do you think that adoption has effected your life in a positive or negative way and how?
Natural Parents
Was the decision to place your child in an adoption yours or was it something you felt pressured into? If you felt pressured who and why?
Do you feel like the choice of adoption worked for you? Why or why not?
Have you search for your child? Why or why not?
If you had the option to participate in open adoption as described in the “Adoption Evolution” mission statement would you? Why or why not?
Over all what is your opinion of adoption?
Adoptive Parents
Why did you choose to adopt?
How would you feel about your adopted child searching and finding their natural parents?
If you had the option to participate in open adoption as described in the “Adoption Evolution” mission statement would you? Why or why not?
Over all has adoption been what you expected? Why or why not?
All adoption triad members
If you could change anything about adoption what would it be?
Share any opinions you may have about what I’m doing here or just opinions about adoption in general.
Thursday, February 02, 2006
I'm out to Seattle tomorrow!!
I just wanted to post up here that I'll be out of town for the weekend. Can you believe my storage place in Seattle is destroying the place my storage has been in for 2 years. I have to drive over 3 mountain passes to go and get this stuff in Febuary!! But I did want to post that hear because I have been in such constant contact with everyone I didn't want anyone to think I just fell off!!
I'm still here and I'm going to try and write something really deep and thought provoking over the weekend.
I hope those who are reading have a fabulous and fun weekend!! I'm out.....
I'm still here and I'm going to try and write something really deep and thought provoking over the weekend.
I hope those who are reading have a fabulous and fun weekend!! I'm out.....
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